"RG GUM" ???

"It´s not that illogical!
The RG88 is made for live ammo, the shotgun is technically a muzzleloader"

No, that is still illogical.

The RG88Gum is a _NON_LETHAL self-defence device. (No, it is almost impossible to convert for metal-bullet ammo!!!). And it is in the same category as a .357 Magnum.

My Sharps percussion rifle (for example) in .54 caliber is a "freie waffe", but capable to kill a Buffalo from 100 meters.

I think the categorization of firearms should be based on their dangerousness on human life.

A 7,5 J 4 mm M20 gun is as harmless as an air rifle. A 35 J 10 mm rubber bullet shooter is even LESS dangerous than a 7,5 J air rifle. (Less penetration). Why do we (you and I) need WBK for them?

Zitat

Original von Gabor VASS
New Hungarian rubber-bullet gun:

Real IZH-43 12-ga shotgun (sawed off), and converted to 9 mm Knall/18 mm Rubber bullet only. 80-100 Joule.

The Ultimate Home Defence Gun:-)) I have one already:-))

One negative part of it: it costs almost 500 euros.

Alles anzeigen

Wieviele Rekruten hast du zur Ausbildung?

"
Wieviele Rekruten hast du zur Ausbildung?"

:-))

This is just a factory photo...

Zitat

Ausserdem denke ich, dass es in der heutigen Zeit durchaus angebracht ist sich über alle möglichkeiten der Selbstverteidigung zu informieren um nicht einem der immer öfter vorkommenden Gewaltdelikte zum Opfer zu fallen.

Alles klar das verstehe ich natürlich, ich wollte mit meinem Hinweis auf die einschlägigen § des StGB nur klar machen das eine Schußwaffe zu haben auch eine Große Verantwortung bedeutet, über die man sich im klaren sein sollte.

Gruß Thomas

The only allowed weapon that shoots with rubber bullets in Lithuania is me 38 compact gum with very weak bullets

SOOOO ich hab mal beim Büchsenmacher in Spanien gefragt (Auf Englisch ) was so ein Umbau so kosten soll, er sagte was man mit grob 350€ oder höher dabei is. Jetzt spiel ich mit dem Gedanken^^

mfg Desert

Zitat

Original von Gabor VASS
The Ultimate Home Defence Gun:-)) I have one already:-))

One negative part of it: it costs almost 500 euros.

500 euros is not too bad for a converted shotgun. The downside of this construction is that reloading takes too much time. Also, I'm not sure if rubber-bullets are really that effective for home defense. I mean, a headshot might prove to be effective (like a punch with your fist) and knock the burglar out - but if you don't knock him out, what happens after you fired your two shots? (at least it makes a perfect club if the two shots fail)

The idea of this gun is very nice. It's cool to see how much creativity people can show to use their gun laws in the best way they can.

Austrians are still ahead of us all. Regular shotguns are still free over there and so is the ammunition. As you all can see, there is already a civil war going on in austria, with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dead people. The anti-gun fraction was right all along! Stupid jerks...

Godfather's effectivness:

15 mm thick furniture plate.
From 5 (five) meters.

IN

OUT

I don't think I have to reload after this:-)))

But if, I have other (SIX) options:

Hey Gabor, can u make a litte Video of these sweet Gun? I think its very interesting

mfg Desert

Das kleine Revolverchen erinnert mich an eine Made in Italy billig- SSW...wobei die Beschriftung wohl eher auf die Türkei verweist...

The "kleine" revolver is a six-shot 12 mm, so bigger than a SW M29 .44 Magnum:-))

Yes, it is ugly looking, junk finished, but the frame is made of aluminium, not zinc, and capable to shoot 12 mm rubber bullets with 50 J energy via 9 mm Knall.

Maybe it is effective from short distance (the shotgun), but minimum energy of bullet has to be about 280 J to take human down. Still it is better than Me 38
Gabor Vass, what can you say about Me 38 Compact gum with original cartridges (not knall + gum ball). How many shots it can handle without problems?

"
Maybe it is effective from short distance (the shotgun), but minimum energy of bullet has to be about 280 J to take human down"

Where did you get this number???

Most of the .38 Special snubbie revolvers aren't capable of 280 J muzzle energy, and those killed thousands of people.

But the traumatic guns are a very different story, they do not kill with penetration and destroying tissue, but made for hitting the target on large surface/very slight penetration.

A baseball club or a rubber police baton won't penetrate the body, but still stops the attacker.

...

I do not know the ME 38 Compact in .380 ME Gum caliber, but I know the original gas-alarm version which is hmmm, far from the best at least:-))

I read about it in some journal about 280 J (its minimum efficiency according to the journal). Of course you can take down human target with 5,45 mm PSM (about 100 J),
In some hunter forum I have read that if you want to calculate the power of the gun to take an animal down you can do it according to an animals weight - 3 J for 1 kg - so if target weights about 80 kg, you need 240 J. I dont know if it is true since I am not a hunter

I have read in Russian forum guns.ru that one guy defended himself from a duck with Leader (TT traumatic version) unsuccesfully so i doubt in traumatic weapons efficiency.

In most cases, the bullet-firing guns (be it real or rubber bullet) ineffective because the defender simply MISS the target:-))

In the military-field the (normal small arm caliber metallic) bullet's lethal limit is 80 J. This is the energy when the bullet is capable of penetrating into a vital organ, and destroy it.

Most rifle bullets are above 80 J even from 2-3 kms.

But the traumatic rounds are different species. You should compare their energy to a baton or club.

ok I understand
It is only interesting why the legal limit (without a licence) of the energy of the bullet is 7,5 J in so many countries.
i would like to have this shotgun, but the limit of the energy spoils it all.

"It is only interesting why the legal limit (without a licence) of the energy of the bullet is 7,5 J in so many countries."

copycat Germany...

(The Russian regulation is more logical: 0,5 J/mm2 --> bigger bullet-more energy).

Und bei den Kanadiern ist es unlogisch...150 m/s, egal welches Geschossgewicht oder Geschossdurchmesser. Da nimmt man dann logischerweise das Pressluft-LG mit Kaliber 9mm...das hat ordentlich Dampf. Die meisten LGs die hier frei ab 18 sind wären es dort nicht, trotz der niedrigen Energie, weil da halt die Mündungsgeschwindigkeit zählt.