"RG GUM" ???

Gabor Vass wrote:
(The Russian regulation is more logical: 0,5 J/mm2 --> bigger bullet-more energy)

I dont know about this - 0,5 J/mm2 is the toughness of Makarych. There was formal restriction of 4 mm for caliber and 7,5 J for energy. Maybe it is changed now.

You see all russian weapons for self defence are "disguised" - legaly they are not firearms - bigger part of them are clasified as gas pistols with possibility to shoot rubber bullets - so they are gas pistols (nevermind, that shooting gas or knall doesnt reload the pistol). Another category which is not classified as firearm is "weapons without barrel" - for example Leader I mentioned, Walther p22 traumatic. If you look at these weapons there is barrel, but its diameter is bigger than the bullets.
I dont know if you can use the 0,5 J/mm2 requirement here.'

Citizens in Russia cant have real combat pistols, only the force structures and security.

"nother category which is not classified as firearm is "weapons without barrel" - for example Leader I mentioned, Walther p22 traumatic."

No-No!

The barrelless guns are the OSA PB-4, PB-2, and the IZH Straznik, these really do not have barrels, just a plastic "frame" for self-containing electric-primed ammo.

OSA PB-2 loaded (IWA-2007)

This is 18 mm caliber with cca. 60-80 joule muzzle energy (this is still within the 0,5 J/mm2), Makarych/Naganich are only 10 mm so, the energy is lower.

"Citizens in Russia cant have real combat pistols"

The same as here, very-very hard (almost impossible) to get the real CCW.

If you read in russian
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/20/001795.html about that barrel (also http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/46/208736.html - here it is claimed that Leader is certified as without barrel)
Maybe I was wrong
I know about OCA - it is category C in LIthuania, but it is not imported. Theoretically it is easier to get category C weapon thant to get category B (combat pistols/revolvers, some shotguns, rifles).
In Lithuania it is easier to get real combat pistol - you have to be 23 years old, a lot of other requirements (medical and legal), but its not VERY hard - just cost a lot of money and patience. You can have shotgun from 18 years old. It is interesting that double barrelled shotguns are in category D together with gas pistols, but still requirements to obtain it are as category B and C.
Most popular combat pistols in Lithuania are Glock 17 and PM (Makarov).

By the way, in Lithuania there are very popular 6 mm Flobert revolvers with 7,5 J limit without a licence.

Knifes are no longer considered as weapons.

My Russian is poor, although I lived in Moscow when I was child.

But it is important, that a lot of people are talking about guns and gun laws, but very few actually know them. Miriads of misinformation are out there.

I learned Russian by myself In school I studied English and German.
There is a lot of wrong information. For example, many people in Lithuania believe that it is legal to take out blocking parts from blow magnum gas pistols and shoot with rubber bullets; that it is legal to shoot knall+ rubber ball from me 38 compact g (4 years in jail according to our criminal code).

...wenn ich diese Waffen alle sehe, muß ich
...und hier wartet und wartet und wartet ... man immer noch auf die BKA-Zulassung der Jet-Protector-JPX.

In Frankreich bekommt man auch viele Kal. .16 u. .12 als Verteidigungswaffe frei ab 18

Naja, so ist es eben

Da sind wir in .de doch echt gearscht mit unseren lächerlichen Gaswölkchen...

Zitat

Original von hubert

Sowas?
Sind "in Echt" aber ganz schön groß...

...ja, genau ! Oder sogar die riesen Teile, genannt "Flash-Ball" (..noch größeres Kaliber).

Da kann man echt neidisch auf die Nachbarn werden...in Frankreich.

Hubert: Korrekt !!!

Es gibt aber auch sehr hochwertige freie Waffen bei denen; die obige ist in der Tat billigstes Zink-Druckguß. Hatte ich mal in der Hand...daher.

Hier eine der kompaktesten Pistolen mit Gummigeschossen auf dem Markt, hat zwar "nur" 38 J ist aber dafür sehr leicht und schmal.

http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/63.html

Hier ist noch eine Makarov Dienstpistole mit 100 J:

http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/112.html

Zitat

Original von hubert
Naja, neidisch vielleicht nicht grad... die dürfen ohne Grund (!) kein Messer spazierenführen.

Naja, mal sehen wie lange das bei uns noch so bleibt. Aber ich schätze dem wird auch bald ein Riegel vorgeschoben.

Gabor Vass
You were right about that 0,5 J/mm2. Found it today

I wanted to ask - is it reasonable to use .380 me gum for self defence (the cartridge is weaker than 7,5 J, penetrates about 20-60 pages in phone book ant a distance of two meters).

"I wanted to ask - is it reasonable to use .380 me gum for self defence (the cartridge is weaker than 7,5 J, penetrates about 20-60 pages in phone book ant a distance of two meters)."

The .380 ME Gum what I know have longer cartridge case than the normal 9 mm Knall, and the muzzle energy is cca. 25-35 J.

Maybe a under-7,5 J also exists, but I have never seen personally such thing.

7,5 J is not too much, we also had such guns before our new gunlaw. Up to 1-2 meters the pain was very similar to a paintball hit. If you shoot quickly and to a small area it could work (or not:-)).

This is the 7,5 J rubber bullet's "wound":

Ohh, looks a little more painful than a 6mm BB "Bee-sting"

Naja all diese wundervollen Verteidigungsgeräte, solange sie nicht legal sind nützen die uns doch hierzulande mal ganz herzlich wenig........

Aber grämt euch nicht, in Österreich ist es ähnlich, da werden eigentlich sämtliche Gummigeschosswaffen gar nicht auf die Ladentheke gebracht, warum?

Als unbescholtener zuverlässiger Bürger kriegt man auf Antrag eigentlich immer einen Waffenpaß (Waffenführerschein vorrausgesetzt). Die einzige sinnvolle Sache wenns denn wirklich sein muss.

Die Ösi's....die haben wenigstens vernünftige Gesetze!

Maybe there are few versions of 380 me gum - in Lithuania we can buy these - it is said that their power is lower than 7,5 J, but nobody knows exactly. Their producer is Pobjeda factory (Bosnia?). There is no information about the cartridges power on the box.

http://www.oksalis.lt/prekeskonk2.php?kr=46&cat=45 sixth photo from the top.

Could you give some web pages of gun shops in your country? It is interesting for me what devices are sold in your country