Question about ammunition

Stark

Excuse me for writing in English, because i am from Lithuania and my German language is a bit poor.
I wanted to ask some questions about gas cartridges.

1. Which of them are the most effective in your opinion?
2. How good is wadie pv supra (45 mg) and CN supra (220 mg)?
3. Can you have 120 mg umarex pv cartridges legally in Germany?
4. Are there some limits in maximum concentration of cs, cn and pv in cartridges?
If these questions are somewhere in the forum mentioned earlier, could you give me the links?
Thank you for your answers.

stiller

Hello Stark

3. yes we can

Vogelspinne

1. 120 mg PV from PTS ( Umarex ).

2. 45 mg Wadie PV is good, CN is mostly not strong enough, but better as nothing.

3. Yes, thats are the strongest Gas-Cartriges in Germany.

4. Today is the Limit for CS 80 mg and CN 220 mg pro Cartrige / Spray-Bottle. PV / OC has no Limit, because it´s only free for defence against Animals, but in Self Defence you can use PV / OC.

Knallebum

I have veeeeery Old 9mm CN Gas Cartridges with 500mg.

But they are best before(?) bzw "haltbar" till 1986.

...my english is very bad.

**germi**

Zitat

Original von Knallebum
I have veeeeery Old 9mm CN Gas Cartridges with 500mg.
But they are best before(?) bzw "haltbar" till 1986.
...my english is very bad.

Die habe ich auch noch...

Knallebum

Jo, genaud die Teile sind es.

Mit dem guten alten Wachsverschluss.

Stark

Thank you for your answers.

These CN cartridges with 500 mg may have collectors vallue

If I understood right, you can't use PV/OC cartridges against people, only against animals.

**HWJunkie**

PV/OC is only allowed to be used against animals, right.

But if you carry PV/OC for defense against animals and
you rightfully use it against a human attacker, it`s ok.

Stefan

**germi**

Zitat

Original von Stark
...These CN cartridges with 500 mg may have collectors vallue :D...

Not only collectors value..they're still active und the CN inside is still working good. A few years ago I've tested one shot of those cartridges...

But the CN is not the only problem of the opponent, the red cap you're seeing is flying out of the barrel in small, hot and burning fragments. After the shot the cartridge looks like a blank revolver cartridge, but only without this crimp.

Stark

Yes, the plastic parts from the cartridges are quite dangerous from short distance. I have read about it in some Lithuanian gun themed forums - shot from a blank cartridge (knall ?) (from 20 cm) left a lot of small holes in the plastic bottle full of water in the both sides. There was one accident in Lithuania when in self defence the offender was killed because the plastic parts from the cartridge did injuries in the neck.

For how long are the PV cartridges effective? I still have a few old unused PV cartridges - they are about 5-7 year old.

Vogelspinne

The Durability of Gas-Cartridges is 5 Years and the ending Time are writing on the Box. If the Cartridge is not oxidated, was not in Water, longer Time direct in the Sun and the Plastic-Cap is closed, than is the Pepper-Filling for more Years o k.
But, if you are not sure, than chance the Cartridges. I use Gas-Cartridges with Plastic-Cap two to three Years over the Time.

TechPro

In Germany you should normaly use such things just for animal defense.

But in case of self-defence you're allowed to use everything: Chainsaws, Tanks and even PV & OC

Thats the way it goes in Germany.

motherbuana

Ich erinnere mich, dass ich vor etwa 12 Jahren aus einem Arminius HW 1G (habe ich zum Glück heute noch ) eine Trommel von den alten CN mit rotem Verschluss verschossen hatte... Mann, kam da ne Wolke raus...

**germi**

Zitat

Original von Stark
Yes, the plastic parts from the cartridges are quite dangerous from short distance. ...

On this old cartidges it's made of cork and sealed with acryl-color, in this case red color.

Very old catridges (now illegal in Germany) had a bullet made of wax, those cartridges were very dangerous, because in case of the oponent is very close, those bullets could pass skin an get shot in fragments through the body into lung or the heart. So to speak they could kill a human.

Stark

Wax bullets remind me traumatic weapons with rubber bullets - they are common in Russia and now are more popular than gas guns. In Lithuania we have me 38 compact gum, which can fire very weak rubber bullets, any other guns with energy higher than 7,5 J are qualified as combat pistols and require a licence.

hoerty

I thought u could use OCs for people ....... but not PV

**germi**

Zitat

Original von Stark
Wax bullets remind me traumatic weapons with rubber bullets - they are common in Russia and now are more popular than gas guns. In Lithuania we have me 38 compact gum, which can fire very weak rubber bullets, any other guns with energy higher than 7,5 J are qualified as combat pistols and require a licence.

No, those Wax-Bullets were halfed in the barrel and those fragments never could reach more than 7,5J. But if the barrel was pressed against the body of the oponent those fragments were shot into the body. Those bullets (0,36g) had a velocity of 292 m/s (10cm away from the barrel).