Cs- Gas Patronen

"Below a certain distance (0.5m-no diskussion about that!) - dangerous due to the hot gases"

Please read ony of my writings above (someone copied here). The thing is dangerous within some centimeters.

And in REAL selfdefence situation it is the last thing I worry about, the health of the attacker.

"Above a certain distance (1.5-2m) - no effect on the attacker."

I think it is underestimated.
Maybe true for rimfire patrons.
Last sylvester I fired a couple of 9 mm PAK CS-patrons (for fun:-)) from my GRPK-9, and the effect of 3 fast, following shots was a more than 3 meters long, half meters wide, almost untransparent white CS-cloud.

"And I appreciate the pepper spray in their equipment, as a non-lethal solution."

The pepper-spray's only advantage, that it is cheap as the dirt. (and easy to carry)
There is no psychological effect (schreckwirkung) so, you MUST use it. The gun shaped gasguns are often enough to show.
It is easier to aim with handgun shaped devices (not a bad argument in case of dog attack), and you KNOW how many shots you still have. In case of a pepperspray you don't know how many left in tha flask.

Just read Jubei's post.

He was wounded at 20cm, but at 1,5m the effect was not as expected.

And with gas you're always depending on the wind.
Not with spray, cause you can use it at a shorter distance.

You're right with one point:
A gun (even a lookalike), can stop an attacker just by showing it or with firing a blank in the air.
But don't count on that if you're attacked by a drugger on turkey who wants money for the next dose. Pepper spray most likely works here.

There is no way for perfect self defense.
But with spray you're at least not in danger of ending up in jail with accidential manslaughter.

Stefan

"And with gas you're always depending on the wind.
Not with spray, cause you can use it at a shorter distance."

The spray is nothing less dependent on weather:-(( The fog type is even much more affected.

"You're right with one point:
A gun (even a lookalike), can stop an attacker just by showing it or with firing a blank in the air."

You say "CAN", I say MOST probably WILL stop the attack. All of the international statistics show this evidence.

"There is no way for perfect self defense."

Actually a 12 ga shotgun IS perfect way for home defence and a .357 Magnum snubbie for carry. But not so easy to get these in our old continent in the law abiding way.

"But with spray you're at least not in danger of ending up in jail with accidential manslaughter."

Have you got even ONE, DOCUMENTED case, when someone killed the attacker _accidentaly_ with a gas-alarm gun in a justified selfdefence situation?

I think it is only a speculation.

Right, but still possible!

Whatever, may everyone carry what he wants and what's legal.
I don't really care about.

I don't carry anything and I don't feel unsafe.

Stefan

"Whatever, may everyone carry what he wants and what's legal."

I do carry a SW M60-9 .357 Magnum snubbie (2,125") as primary defence. (Yes, I am one of the very few civilian, who licensed to do this in my country.)

But I also carry my 9 mm PAK gas-alarm pistol (also licensed), for that lower intensity defense situations, when lethal force is not justified.
I effectively used this piece in case of dog-attack, and than a pepper-spray could not be (fast) enough, and the .357 Magnum is too dangerous in a crowded city.

So, I value the gasgun as viable device in the "force continuum" (as yankees say).

die effektivität einer ssw kann man sicher ohne wirkliche erfahrungen (und das müssten dann auch mehrere konkrete situationen sein, von denen man berichten kann) stundenlang diskutieren. ich habe oft meine erma egp 55 (mit kws) dabei. abends beim spazieren gehen z. b.. ob ich sie einsetze, hängt von vielen faktoren ab. naja, ich wollte nur folgendes berichten, was mir während eines sommerurlaubs an der ostsee passiert ist. drei typen haben mich und meinen kumpel "angmacht". soweit war das für uns beide kontrollierbar, da die drei besoffen waren. einer hat mich dann aber mit einem gasrevolver bedroht. effekt: ein autofahrer hält an, steigt aus und sagt sinngemäß: "ey. lasst das ma jungs." aber dann ist die pappnase wieder weggefahren. schließlich habe ich den typen beruhigen können und da ihm die waffe in seine zu weite hose rutschte, war die gefahr zunächst gebannt. allerdings war ich danach so auf 200, dass ich ihn am liebsten - ohne mit der wimper zu zucken - umgelegt hätte. fazit: wer einen anderen mit einer waffe bedroht oder beschießt, sollte sich klar machen, dass die "rache" oft auch sehr heftig ausfällt. das bedenkt man eher selten, wenn man in einer gefahrensituation ist.

jens

Flammpanzer

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