Advice for my Haenel 49a

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    Hello all, please excuse my English; as my German would only be good for comedy in this case.
    I've recently got a Sportmodell 49a, with the Q1 mark, very cheap. It was missing the bolt handle and was somewhat abused. I made a temporary bolt handle and it seemed that the trigger worked well enough and the piston flew forward, but it didn't shoot.
    I then discovered the barrel was blocked, I wormed all I could out of it, then had to resort to heating up the barrel enough to char the wood rod that was still inside and scrape that out. But I could only get so far...
    On taking the gun apart, I discover that there is no ...er...Stossrohrchen on the end of the Manschetteschraube. The little tube is still in the bore.

    I cannot yet get this tube out. I have saturated it with penetrating oil two days ago, and yesterday I have beaten at it with a steel rod. The rod acts like there is a breechplug in there, It feels totally solid, like its threaded in there. I have hammered it as hard as I dare, to the point where I bent the rod.

    I have not yet tried with a very hard steel rod. shortened to where only a little protrudes from the muzzle.

    Does anyone have any advice on getting this tube unstuck? My next try will be to heat the barrel, and then pour some cold water down it and have another go with the rod. Perhaps there is some lead sheared off a ball around it, and I need to get it hot enough to melt the lead?

    Any advice from someone who is experienced in removing a firmy stuck tube will be greatly appreciated!

    Well, I guess you now have at least an idea why the 49a was quite at a bargain price.
    Unfortunatley I am not too familiar with this model and it would definately help a lot if you could take a look at this picture here click me pleaseand tell us the parts number that you suspect is stuck in the barrel. An additional photo would probably be nice as well.

    Well, to unstick the barrel you need to find a way past the blockage. It might just be that you already sufficiently heated the whole thing for the wood to char and probably some lead to melt and harden around a previously free-workable structure. Well, to sum it up: heating the whole gun and then cooling it down rapidly is something that is definately not going to improve the wear and accuracy of the gun. To avoid it I would probably try to use a below-caliber steel rod, heat it till it is white and then apply heat directly to the site of blockage. Repeating that a few times will allow for most of the lead to melt and you already got a hot rod in place to hammer the blockage out then.
    A longer-term solution would be to use a low-grade organic acid to create water-soluable lead compounds and then wash those out of the barrel but you should be careful that the stuff does not touch any blued surfaces. I use this method to clean the rifeling on some well-used and never cleaned match rifles but I canot guarantee that it will solve enough of the crap sticking in your gun to make a difference...... in hinsight heat and carefully-applied force will probably just work better.

    Ihr Glück ist Trug und ihre Freiheit Schein:
    Ich bin ein Preuße, will ein Preuße sein!

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von F600 (23. September 2007 um 18:01)

    Well, yes, but for 20 dollars I would have bought it even if the barrel was plugged to the muzzle. These little rifles are unknown in my land, and this little rifle seemed much more elegant than my Haenel 310.
    I believe the part would be part of Nr 18. "manschettenschraube, geloetet", except mine is no longer soldered. The large part where the piston seal lies is still on the piston, and the tube is stuck in the barrel. I don't think I exceeded the melting point of lead at any point. The darkend surface of the little tube, visible through where the balls enter the barrel, showed that it has been stuck a long time in that position. The crap in the bore showed that somebody else had made an effort to unstick it in the past, if it had been very loose I think it would have moved.
    Looking down the works, I can see the end of the block the barrel is mounted in - it looks a little silvery...but I cannot tell if it is tinned with solder, or if it is simply just not blued.
    I don't plan on heating it enough to change the hardness, even if I did, the rifle is useless at this point. I was hoping for a little differential in expansion to help me break the tube loose.
    As for heating a rod to slide down the bore, this won't work well for melting any lead that may have fused. The rod looses too much heat, cooling off so much it won't hardly char wood.

    The acid idea is good - tell me what you use - I may give it a try.

    I think I'll have at it a little longer with the rod Down here, if I just lay it in the sun a little. it'll get to about 45 degrees in no time, while the insides are still 25. This may help....every little bit helps.

    Thanks for you reply!

    Well, the acid idea only works on lead water-soluble organic lead compounds happen to be toxic as well, so you should not dump whatever comes out of the barrel into the toilet but dispose of it. I use either citric acid or acetic acid and toluenesulfonic acid works even better (although not a household item). While the lead is more easily converted than the steel of the barrel you should pay due attention not to leave the acid too long in contact with the steel or there will be corrosion.

    The idea with the rod is basically not as bad as you think. I have been using it two times but while it will not get the lead running out of the barrel it will make it stick to it and I was able to withdraw some of the material stuck inside. You just have to get the steel white hot (approx 1200°C) to have a significant effect.

    On the downside: we do not exactly know what is stuck inside your gun. What kind of tools do you have? Is there any chance you might get access to a drilling bench to have someone either put some significant pressure on the blockade or to have it drilled out as a last resort.

    Ihr Glück ist Trug und ihre Freiheit Schein:
    Ich bin ein Preuße, will ein Preuße sein!

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von F600 (23. September 2007 um 20:10)

    I am almost positive that what is stuck in the bore is the end of the manschettenschraube. It fits snugly, is the right length and it has a hole inside for the air to pass through.
    My father has a lathe and milling machine, but I don't think either of us has a drill long enough to reach this tube. (Tho I could forge one...) I already made a bronze drill to get the crud out of the barrel - the rifling looks and feels undamaged so far - but I am sure this tube is going to be fairly hard - it formed the end of my rod enough to where I could measure the intermnal diameter of the pipe. Yes, i turned the end of my rod in my little lathe to fit it.. I hope to extract that part so I don't have to make one.

    Its no problem to heat up something to white heat, as I am a blacksmith by profession. I might be able to get a rod that fits inside the tube hot on one end and pull it through the tube.

    Well, i think I shall stick with what has worked on centuries old frozen screws on old flintlocks - repeated heating and cooling (not over the tempering colors ), penetrating oil, time, and vibration. There is so much oil in there I don't think the acid would have a fair chance. Failing that I'll slowly warm it up to where a DDR air rifle ball melts then I'll give the rod a mighty whack with the hammer. If this doen't work Ill let the acid have a chance - the heat will have burned off most of the oil and the acid will work better.
    Another question - does anyone know of a source for oval headed slotted machine screws? I can only find Phillips head ones here. My rifle is missing all its original screws that go through the stock, I can make screws from scratch, but hate doing it when I could buy one somewhere.

    Thanks again for the advice!

    Just an update on my Haenel 49a.

    I did finally get some replacement parts in, so I decided to work on my little rifle again. I had tried heating up the barrel to the point where a lead ball melted on the outside, then tried to hammer the stossrohrchen out. Then I tried heating it up to a blue temper color, and again with the tube, but I was only able to move it about 5mm, and no more.
    Then I made a heavy steel hook to get into the slot at the back of the tube to try to pull it out. No luck there either.

    At this point I gave up and waited for the new parts, I was going to drill it out. After getting the new parts I made myself a long drill bit that could just slide between the rifling grooves. I bored off about 25 mm before I could push the remainder out. Then I made another drill to bore from the back to get the thin part still left inside.

    From the erractic action of the first drill, I suspected there was something hard stuck between the tube and barrel, perhaps a sewing pin or a needle, or a very snall nail. But nails aren't normally so hard. I can see slight damage to the outside of the tube - that I didn't do - as well as a scratch inside.

    Incidently I WAS able to heat the interior to the unsoldering temperature by using two heavy wires heated in the forge...but what I thought was a mashed ball turned out to be part of the firmly wedged remnant of the stossrohrchen. Fortunately my heating the barrel did soften the tube so drilling out was easier, but whatever bit of steel was stuck was HARD, so much so that I broke the first bit I made on it.

    I may post some pictures later.

    I wasnt involved in your problem/solution but I (and many other haenel owners aswell) do appreciate every picture and experience report about this problem!

    Thank you for the update and looking forward to some pictures! :huldige:

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    Well, Neobusy, just replying to my post helps. This decrepit old 49a may just be "arisen from the ashes" very soon. I have learned some good things here I didn't yet know.
    I wish I had taken photos before I started. The bolt handle was gone and the lower part of it was battered and bent widely open so that it was impossible to put a bolt handle pin in. I wasn't sure of the alloy, but it felt like the stuff drills are made from here. I beat the battered bits back in, pushed it back to where both holes lined up. I ended up altering the top to fit a handle from a 310 - this enabled me to file off the chipped parts. I hope there are no unseen cracks And it was easier than altering the bolt handle I already had. Today I made the thing that keeps the handle from folding till it is closed
    Other than making a new leather seal - I was too stupid to order one - I should have it back shooting soon..

    A few pictures of some crude tools...first, my special Stossrohrchenzieher. It is crudely forged from "drill rod" = thats "silver steel" to those who learned the Queen's english. Its about 10mm thick, and some 40cm long. The other end is bent to allow pulling or hammering. Inserted in the back end of the action, it can be slowly turned till the hook engages in the slot. But it didn't work - hammering on the bar only distorted the stossrohrchen. I also tried twisting - a little- but I was afraid it would break off.

    More simple tools. Again from drill-rod...well...it makes a really good drill. End is heated and hammered in shape similar to a screwdriver, then filed to the exact size. Then it is hardened and tempered. If you have good measuring equipment it is not too difficult to make. My final one was smaller than the hole by less than a hair's thickness. I had to make two, because I couldn't get the bit to stay in from the back, and because I feared it wouldn't work when it got to the slot.
    I made the first bit to slip between rifling grooves. A brass tube protected the rifling at the muzzle. Then I drilled out what was left, with my larger bit, after the main part broke free.


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