Kimber Pepper Blaster - Gasgerät für die Amis ...

"three times as effective as the most popular pepper spray" ...

"3 mal so effektiv wie das beliebteste Pfefferspray" ...

und das mit nur je 6 ml (!) pro Schuss ... Respekt - ein echtes 'Wunder' - Gerät ...

da müssen die intelli...enten Europäer den dummen Amis doch tatsächlich erst mal zeigen, wie "effektive Selbstverteidigung" geht ... (da haben die nämlich überhaupt keine Ahnung von ... )

(ob's wirklich hinhaut, so was im "Think BIG !" - Land als "Blaster" (!!) zu vermarkten ?? )

na ja ... zur Not haben sie ja auch noch andere "hübsche" Sachen zum 'Selbstschutz' im Programm ...

ganz "amerikanische" ...

(Geräte zum Verursachen einer "high speed lead poisoning" zum Beispiel ... )

What is the problem with this advertisement?

The Swiss Piexon Guardian Angel is sold under the trade name Kimber Pepper Blaster in the USA since many years.

It is true that the device is much more effective than a conventional pepperspray, works on a different principle.

6 ml with 150 km/h is more than enough.

(3 meters, 2 shots, 5 years after warranty is over.)

Zitat von Gabor VASS

It is true that the device is much more effective than a conventional pepperspray, works on a different principle.

6 ml with 150 km/h is more than enough.

it is advertised as a self defense device for "normal" people (not especially for "weapon experienced guys" ...)

"effectiveness" does not only mean "if" (!) the irritant substance gets accuretly into the target ... but the term effectiveness of course also has to consider, to what extent "normal" people are able to get the irritant substance really into the - not necessarily motionless !!!, but very likely moving ! - small target : the face ! ... (because only if hit accuretly it will work properly ...)

I saw advertisment videos from Piexon years ago, where not even the guy in the promo video was able to hit accuretly on to a not moving (!!!!!) target (a face symbolizing oval on a glass pane) with his first shot ...

why do you think they brought the Laser aiming help with the Guardian Angel 3 ? (this might work better, but as you correctly said, they have offered the GA for many years now, means the versions 1 + 2 without any laser support ...

may be you as an experienced guy, who also is familiar with the stress aspect of a self defense situation, unlike the most "normal" people (!), would have been able to use the GA 1 or 2 "effective" ...

but I very much doubt, that "normal" unexperienced people in a highly dynamic self defense situation were in the same way as you ...

and therefore I really found it absurd, to say that this device with its just two shots (!) is "3 times as effective" as a lets say "big" pepperspray with 200 up to 400 ml ... I think, this promo claim was just ridiculous for many years ... (may be now its a little bit better with the laser help, but to my opinion still far from beeing "3 times as effective" as a big spray ... )

Respectfully, but I disagree.

1. the usefullness and effectivness are not fair to define based on the capabilities of the person who use it.
I am quite effective with lighweight compact polymer framed pistols, but the average person without extensive pistol training is NOT. Does it mean, that a Glock for example is not an effective device neutralizing the threat?

The Guardian Angel is clearly more suited for the pistol-trained people.

2. yes, the "3 times" more effective is not a quantifiable term in this case. But the Piexon Guardian Angel (especially the pistol sighted and pistol gripped GAII and GAIII) is much more effective than a common pepperspray. becuase:
- it can be used in heavy wind
- from much larger distance than a usual pocket sized FOG spray
- can be safely used in a closed room without self-contamination, opposed to a FOG pepperspray
- the speed of the jet make it very hard to impossible to turn away, and make it much more effective against glasses, masks etc.

3. It is unfair to compare the pocket sized unit to an impossible-to-carry crowd control extra large peppespray. That would be correct to complain to JPX4.

Zitat von Gabor VASS

The Guardian Angel is clearly more suited for the pistol-trained people.

I agree ...

Zitat von Gabor VASS

the usefullness and effectivness are not fair to define based on the capabilities of the person who use it.

I disagree ...

it clearly is offered to 'average' people ... so we somewhere have to consider their capabilitys, when looking at big promotion claims ... (I think ...)

Zitat von Gabor VASS

the Piexon Guardian Angel (especially the pistol sighted and pistol gripped GAII and GAIII) is much more effective than a common pepperspray. becuase:

- it can be used in heavy wind
- from much larger distance than a usual pocket sized FOG spray

especially at 'larger distances' the problem of hitting accurratly with the GA occured for the 'average' customers !

already years ago I read (might be here on co2air.de) from guys - who were used to aiming and hitting with (free) weapons - who tried out the GA in their gardens or so, and they usually failed at least at the first shot on a still standing (!) target (an oval drawing on a wall or so) ...

(I admitted that with the Laser help it might be a little bit better now ... enough for the 'average' unexperienced usually not very familliar with self defense situations customer ?? I still have my doubts ...)

Zitat von Gabor VASS

than a usual pocket sized FOG spray

o.k., I prefer sprays with 100 up to 400 ml content, besides of the content they have a significant better range ...

Zitat von Gabor VASS

It is unfair to compare the pocket sized unit to an impossible-to-carry crowd control extra large peppespray.

(in light of the big advertising claims I think it is not really sooo "unfair" ... )

but o.k. ... for example a spray like the Walther Bear Defender (225 ml) to my opinion is not correctly classified when it is called an "impossible to carry" device ...

for me its easy to carry such a spray in my jackets pocket ...

but important, too, in my view :

nowadays in Germany it really is not unusual, that for example street robbery ist done by more than just one single attacker ...

how about the so called "3 times effectiveness" of this 2-shot device against 2 or 3 attackers ?

with a device that still requires accurat hits (maybe in twilight or darkness) in a possibly (very) dynamic situation, with the average victim in great emotional stress ?

so I personally still believe that for the 'average' person a spray with enough content (and therefore reach) plus a gasrevolver is the more "effective" equipment compared with the GA ...

(for adrenalin junkies of course it might be the right choice ... )

o.k., all that is my personal opinion ... of course I respect your whole experience and knowledge regarding weapons and the topic of self defense ...

@kai and @Gabor VASS

The situation in Germany really has changed.

Today you gonna be attacked by groups of bad boys.

So a self defence weapon must have ammonition enough to probably stop more than two attackers...

Myself I like revolvers... but five or six of pepper maybe will not fit the need of stopping several attackers...

Better to take a pistol with 15 or more cardridges?

And additionally wear a 200ml or larger can with pepper spray, jelly or foam?

And up to that whats about a knife and a tonfa?

You understand, what I mean? How far will this go in future?

I understood the need of beeing able to self defend my family and me... but as same I am sick and tired of this whole thing...

Kai, we are in the same street again:-)

"

so I personally still believe that for the 'average'
person a spray with enough content (and therefore reach) plus a
gasrevolver is the more "effective" equipment compared with the GA ..."

I agree with this. But these options do not exclude each other.

More options are better.

The same person can carry a snubbie gasrevolver AND a gasspray AND a Guardian Angel II/III. All can be under 1 kg.

And choose whatever fits best for the situation.

In subway train it is not really recommended to use a gasrevolver, but in case of a "pack" attack on the street, that is the better.

In a windy weather on the street, however, it is better to grip the jet protector technology.

---

For FerencG: there are situations when you can not win, not even with a submachine gun.

Parkplatzkriege, Massenmorde durch Daueranstehen an der Ikea-Kasse, Gewaltexzesse mit Einkaufswagen in den Fluren der Supermärkte...
Es ist der Horror.

Und das schlimmste: kein Netzempfang auf dem Smartphone!

Ich denke langsam auch, dass einige hier zu sehr in Paranoia abgleiten. Ja, es haben sich einige Dinge in Deutschland seit 2015 zum Schlechteren verändert, was die öffentliche Sicherheit angeht.... aber nicht in dem Ausmaß, dass man nun am besten die Glock mit 30-Schuss-"Fun Stick" ständig mit schleppt....

Die Grenze zwischen Gefahrenbewußtsein und Paranoia kann sehr fein sein.

.....

I, too, am getting the feeling that some users of this forum are slowly succumbing to paranoia. It is true that things have taken a turn for the worse with respect to public safety in Germany since 2015, but not to a degree that every single individual needs to be equipped like a one-man army.

There's a fine line between being aware of your surroundings and potential dangers on one side, and outright paranoia on the other side.